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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 8/10/2010 7:30:58 AM
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19ramman85
Posts: 760
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From: Sandusky, MI
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RichLp - and a couple of others, lol
quote:
"Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me. "But you ask, 'How do we rob you?' "In tithes and offerings. You are under a curse—the whole nation of you—because you are robbing me. Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it.
The following are thoughts I had with myself, and God concerning this very passage;
a) Ok - I'm trying this! Remembering to put - "FAITH", into it - and not any sense of financial gain, which could be misconstrued as - "greed(y)".
b) I tithed diligently for well over a few years. Sometimes I had to - "make-up", here and there - but nonetheless, I did it! 
However .......... Nothing changed! I am still living in the same situation, as before; a house that needs serious repairs, wondering at times where we'll get money for; bills, eats, auto, etc.
Maybe it's because;
a) Maybe it's because the rest of my family isn't tithing. A very small possibility - however, since they all don't have much faith in God - I seriously doubt God is using that against - "ME".
b) Maybe I'm still looking at the wrong aspect of it, some way, some how?
c) Maybe I'm just one of those people God just doesn't want to bless - especially in that way? After all - doesn't he say - "I will Bless those I want to bless, curse those I want to curse, show mercy on those I want to show mercy on, etc etc, etc
My final results/decision?
I'll let ya's know later ................ just noticed time, and it is time to go!
-charles
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 8/10/2010 11:24:08 AM
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gralan
Posts: 2295
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From: RV in Texas
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People who give expecting to get back are not offering gifts.
Its called bribery.
_____________________________
suffering servant, gralan,
BTh student TGSAT
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The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever...
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 8/10/2010 3:02:26 PM
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gmcspice
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gralan
People who give expecting to get back are not offering gifts.
Its called bribery.
Amen!!
I know for me, no matter how much or little I give, God sees in my heart that I give it because I love him.
There have been times where I have given him my last pennies(lately that happens a lot).
He always gives it back to me in some kind of way. The thing is, it's not always money but it is still a great and mighty blessing and always when I least expect it.
_____________________________
To have friends, you have to be a friend!
gmcspice4GOD
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 8/10/2010 5:59:48 PM
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gralan
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From: RV in Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gmcspice
quote:
ORIGINAL: gralan
People who give expecting to get back are not offering gifts.
Its called bribery.
Amen!!
I know for me, no matter how much or little I give, God sees in my heart that I give it because I love him.
There have been times where I have given him my last pennies(lately that happens a lot).
He always gives it back to me in some kind of way. The thing is, it's not always money but it is still a great and mighty blessing and always when I least expect it.
Hey gmspice,
It is good to read a post from you again. We must bounce in different patterns down the halls of CrossWalk.
If I'm taking advantage of the building and services, as a member I have a duty to shoulder my portion of the bills. This is not the tithe IMO, its just doing what you are expected to do.
If you do not work, you do not eat. If you do not pay the bills, you do not get the services.
The tithe is beyond paying one's bills, IMO.
If someone wants to know about giving, that's one thing. Or paying one's bills at church, that's another thing.
But using the word "Tithe" is a specific pattern of giving. It doesn't matter what people from the last hundred years called it, or are calling it today. If you are using the idea Tithe from the Bible, then a whole system of financial accountability is in order.
Otherwise a person ends up playing Bible games. I give as I am able, not only at church, but in my personal life. We have not ever had much, but we've given away two bikes to a father and daughter so they could ride together. We gave a car to a single working mother. We let a disabled friend stay with us 18 months while he got social security.
I think God wants more than our money, and I think churches that focus on tithing want our money.
Perhaps it is time to rethink what church is about? Is it the pastors job to shepherd the flock or go visiting people who are sick. I seem to remember Jesus talking about those who visited the sick and imprisoned did it to Him and they could go to heaven.
Paul wrote about everyone contributing to the worship service; a psalm, a song, a word, etc.
I appeal to you therefore brethren by the mercies of God to present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God.
I think Paul meant our Tithe and Offering is the whole package of what makes us up, not just our physical body.
But then I've blabbed too much.
_____________________________
suffering servant, gralan,
BTh student TGSAT
//TrinityTheology.org/
//freecourses.trinitytheology.org/
The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever...
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 8/11/2010 3:43:48 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 9881
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From: Dothan, AL
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quote:
If I'm taking advantage of the building and services, as a member I have a duty to shoulder my portion of the bills. This is not the tithe IMO, its just doing what you are expected to do.
IMO, that much can more than be accomplished if all members of most churches only gave 2-3% of income. But I wouldn't want to be a member of a church where the money given mainly went to paying for a buliding and associated bills. I wouldn't want to belong to any church if its members aren't also involved in ministry outside the building and a major portion of the money received goes to ministries, foreign, domestic, and local.
quote:
...and I think churches that focus on tithing want our money.
What if over 30 years ago the Holy Spirit led me to begin tithing at a time I wasn't a member of any church and apart from any preacher's sermons and, on top of that, I didn't believe tithing had any relevance to us today? Should I refuse to obey that leading now?
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 8/11/2010 10:44:01 PM
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gralan
Posts: 2295
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From: RV in Texas
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My wife and I practiced paying a certain amount monthly to the church for the bills and such. We put in the plate our offerings.
The idea of paying ones bills was a minimum to having a church building with electric, water, janitors, etc.
If one wants to tithe, well, every three years the tithes didn't go to the Temple but stayed in the neighborhood for all the needy to enjoy.
This is why I'm thinking selective practice of the tithe seems not to be in the same vein as most people who think they are satisfying some prescription by their current patterns of giving.
What most people I know of do today may be considered offerings, but hardly is the Biblical practice of tithing.
The point is to be paying the bills, taking care of the widows and orphaned, those unable to work, funding missions, paying for the education of folks we called out of our congregation to service and ministry as led by the Spirit for their gifts, etc., is beyond the concept of most folks who think of church giving. But church is not some organization who services our needs.
The church is us. We pay the bills. We pay the salaries. We should be helping the poor, needy, disenfranchised, abandoned, broken and unhealthy. As we call people to ministry and working their gifts, we should be the ones then that pay for the education we require of them. Some folks demand 4 years of worldly education before seminary, our mission directors and youth leaders need other requirements for education and trainings. Our churches should have adequate ventilation, and full first aid with trained staff, etc.
No, many of us miss the idea. We've got some Temple model working in our heads, when the local church should be the synagogue model.
Take care of your own first. If you don't work (ministry and service), you don't eat (on the spiritual food and ministries of the church).
But then, what do I know.
There's no need to put what I need to pay for bills in the collection plate, I know what it is and I can make arrangements for it to go straight to the office. Offerings are those other givings that we do, perhaps including the tithes.
Thanks for letting me rant.
_____________________________
suffering servant, gralan,
BTh student TGSAT
//TrinityTheology.org/
//freecourses.trinitytheology.org/
The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever...
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 8/12/2010 4:11:16 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 9881
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gralan
What most people I know of do today may be considered offerings, but hardly is the Biblical practice of tithing.
According to biblical standards or not, the meaning of tithe means one tenth. So, if I give one tenth of my income to Christian ministries, I tithe.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 8/12/2010 7:32:39 PM
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gralan
Posts: 2295
Joined: 1/29/2010
From: RV in Texas
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Euty, and others,
I'm glad that you have a position you stand firm on, and I agree it is a good stance. Average "tithing" in America last I heard was about 3%. I have a firm stance as well, and I'm confident its a good stance. We are blessed to be doing what we perceive is correct.
I am not interested in challenging anyone's practice. We all must operate out of faith, between ourself and the Lord (according to the principle twice mentioned by Paul).
From what I gather by reading the Anchor Bible, Interpreters Bible, Ungers, and other sources, those required to tithe under the Mosaic Law were those whose increase came from God's hand because God owned the land. The craftsmen, tent and saddle makers (like Paul), and skilled workers, and the poor and needy did not tithe products and money. The poor and needy received from the tithe.
All needed to give freewill offerings.
Now, this isn't including Temple taxes, and other payments which were required.
I'm just wanting to get to the truth in labeling, as it were. There are specific meaning for specific workings in doctrine and theology. There are specific meanings and applications for Biblical commands and patterns of behaviors. There are specific words, definitions and phrases which their meaning has been established for a very long time.
It isn't all just "do what you want and call it whatever you wish" kind of arrangement; this is how the world does things. There is truth, there is reality.
Some of what I hear when communicating with others is the idea borrowed from our modern society which says it is all relative. CSLewis had much to say about this in his writings and essays, although he isn't the only one.
There is a poster in a Christian forum I go to, who clearly advocates the clear doctrines of Pelagianism, yet he denies it with all his heart and mind. Now, it is not up to me to tell him what to think. However I do not have to accept his definitions of what is plainly and historically true and accurate.
One poll of self-professing Evangelicals had an overwhelming majority of respondents denying there was any Ultimate Truth.
These people could not be Evangelical Christians if they deny Ultimate Truth. Whatever they call themselves doesn't matter.
Would you not agree with that?
If I say I'm in support of "No new taxes" but then go on to support increasing existing ones or calling a new tax a "fee", aren't I going around the block but ending up back at contradicting myself?
Some of this occurs quite innocently enough. But a lot of disagreement in the Community of the faithful in Christ can be minimized if we end up having a shared vocabulary. The Bible and its vocabulary I would think is our base of operation, and I'm sure you agree.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
quote:
ORIGINAL: gralan
What most people I know of do today may be considered offerings, but hardly is the Biblical practice of tithing.
According to biblical standards or not, the meaning of tithe means one tenth. So, if I give one tenth of my income to Christian ministries, I tithe.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 8/15/2010 10:09:11 AM
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19ramman85
Posts: 760
Joined: 4/10/2008
From: Sandusky, MI
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OK - I gotta get this done!
My solution to tithing is this; Tithing must come from, And not the wallet, And such.
Meaning that if one can't give from the generosity of their heart - then one isn't tithing by the spirit. Especially when one is down in my income level! lol. Even then - we are taught that the poor widow gave all she had to God, out of her generosity, unlike the Priests who gave for - "show".
In my situation, And I may be wrong about this, but after praying And such about it - I kinda doubt it; Paul (?) tells us that we should be generous with our money, yet not so generous that we (me And my family, for instance) - "ourselves", end up needing help.
That I am still required to tithe - yet maybe not as more so than some family making in one day, than I do all year.
And not to expect anything, nor wonder/worry whether we will be blessed either here on earth, or Heaven above, when we give. And that is regardless of money, time, And or effort! And that God love a generous giver - And gives abundantly, in His own time-frame, not ours.
Now that I have explained myself on that, Whadaya think?
-charles
_____________________________
Please visit my new poll and vote, and comment if ya want!
http://faithcommunitynetwork.com/m_4970403/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#4970403
Thanx!
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 8/19/2010 2:33:53 AM
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gralan
Posts: 2295
Joined: 1/29/2010
From: RV in Texas
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Perhaps I've been too long in the tooth again.
I agree with the idea of the cheerful giver. Who could not.
The problem I have is with labels and programs; our words actually have meaning.
_____________________________
suffering servant, gralan,
BTh student TGSAT
//TrinityTheology.org/
//freecourses.trinitytheology.org/
The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever...
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